"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone)
08/11/2019 at 15:53 • Filed to: None
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"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone)
08/11/2019 at 15:53 • Filed to: None | 0
| 33 |
The whole Max mess, the previous 787 hiccups and the recent schedule delays for the updated 777X program clearly show structural problems at Boeing.
Since the original 777, there wasn’t one trouble free airplane type at Boeing. I don’t know why. Maybe culture has changed there. Maybe they changed their focus from the product and the people to money and shareholders. Or I don’t know. But if they don’t get their shit together, not only Airbus will run away with the crown but Boeing will have trouble fending off Chinese and/or Russian competition.
ttyymmnn
> El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
08/11/2019 at 16:05 |
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I blame Airbus. And by that, I mean that Airbus is putting serious pressure on Boeing and they are scrambling to keep up. This is putting more pressure on managers who are putting more pressure on workers. Quality is suffering. It took two crashes to get Boeing—and the FAA—to do the rigorous testing that the Max should have had in the first place. Boeing is so gun shy on the NMA that all the momentum in that sector is in favor of Airbus and the 321.
As for the 777X, it’s my understanding that what caused the delay is engine related, which would be on GE, not Boeing.
Boeing’s in a tough spot, no doubt. I think what is needed is new management at the highest levels. If anything, that would show the public that the company is serious about turning this around.
CB
> El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
08/11/2019 at 16:10 |
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I blame corporate nature. A company as large as Boeing shouldn’t be so concerned about their profits that they put the lives of the clients as a secondary. Honestly, if this causes Boeing to fail, good.
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CB
> El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
08/11/2019 at 16:10 |
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Apparently I got Kinja’d. So... uh... planes are cool, I wish they crashed less.
gettingoldercarguy
> El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
08/11/2019 at 16:11 |
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Same that happened to Nissan, Kraft and will probably happen to Toyota. Keep cutting costs, move your headquarters to a less desirable place and get lower skilled people developing worse products. Yeah, short term eps may go up, but you'll pay for it later on. Moving their headquarters to Chicago was dumb and indicative of them trying too hard to curb costs. Sometimes the customer (shareholder) is wrong.
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El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
> ttyymmnn
08/11/2019 at 16:12 |
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Ugh. I’m not sure you can blame Airbus for being too competent. That's their nature. They're born out of competition and struggle and that shows.
Also, Alan was great. They should bring him back. He’s still alive, right?
farscythe - makin da cawfee!
> El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
08/11/2019 at 16:13 |
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same thing that keeps going wrong for vettel
pressure from competitors.... and possibly a side of we’re american and therefore infallible
(okay that second part doesnt mesh so well with vettel)
dogisbadob
> El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
08/11/2019 at 16:16 |
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Cutting costs isn’
t cheap
facw
> ttyymmnn
08/11/2019 at 16:16 |
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I’m curious as to how much better things are at Airbus though. A lot has been made of the FAA allowing Boeing to self-certify things, but I haven’t read anything about whether other manufacturers have similar arrangements. I very much doubt Boeing is the only one.
Of course that’s only one part of the chain of fuckups here, but I tend to think that a lot of what bad for Boeing could easily go bad for others as well.
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El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
> farscythe - makin da cawfee!
08/11/2019 at 16:23 |
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I always suspected him of being an undercover American...
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ttyymmnn
> El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
08/11/2019 at 16:39 |
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I’m not blaming Airbus per se. I’m saying that it was the competitive pressure Airbus put on Boeing that caused Boeing to lose their way. Boeing had gotten fat and comfortable being at the top for so long.
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ttyymmnn
> gettingoldercarguy
08/11/2019 at 16:42 |
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It’s the way of modern business. Shareholders are more important than customers or the public.
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ttyymmnn
> CB
08/11/2019 at 16:42 |
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It’s actually rather extraordinary how seldom planes do crash.
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gettingoldercarguy
> ttyymmnn
08/11/2019 at 16:43 |
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By law they have to put the shareholder first, but sometimes that means telling the shareholders that they're wrong or they're not going to get more.
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CB
> ttyymmnn
08/11/2019 at 16:43 |
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Oh, I know. But if you’ve got a new plane that does a lot of crashing...
coqui70
> El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
08/11/2019 at 17:21 |
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They’re spreading their innovation teams across too many projects, and have lost the quality rigor. This is a dangerous combination.
Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
> El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
08/11/2019 at 17:35 |
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I wonder how much the management team is still made up of former McDonnell Douglas managers, the ones that sunk that company with underperforming derivatives for decades.
gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
> gettingoldercarguy
08/11/2019 at 18:03 |
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“ Contrary to what many believe, U.S. corporate law does not impose any enforceable legal duty on corporate directors or executives of public corporations to maximize profits or share price.”
https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2012/06/26/the-shareholder-value-myth/
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gettingoldercarguy
> gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
08/11/2019 at 18:09 |
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Til! Thanks!
DipodomysDeserti
> ttyymmnn
08/11/2019 at 18:20 |
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I used to work next to a small airport and I was surprised by how often the little ones crash. Much more frequent than I would have imagined. My step brother was in flight school for a bit and saw a lot of sketchy stuff in the airspace where the flight schools and sky diving companies all flew.
wafflesnfalafel
> El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
08/11/2019 at 18:30 |
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McDonnell Douglas...
f86sabre
> ttyymmnn
08/11/2019 at 18:32 |
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This. Boeing, in its effort to compete and get lean, tried to take on some Airbus characteristics. That didn’t work out well.
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gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
> DipodomysDeserti
08/11/2019 at 19:27 |
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“ Depending on how the statistics are sliced, private planes may be even more dangerous than the leading cause of transportation deaths in America: cars.”
https://www.livescience.com/49701-private-planes-safety.html
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DipodomysDeserti
> gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
08/11/2019 at 19:34 |
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That does not surprise me.
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gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
> DipodomysDeserti
08/11/2019 at 20:20 |
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I’m failing to find it, a fter that NY Yankee was killed in 2006 Flight journal had an article on how many athlete and ceo contracts have bits banning flight training.
Spanfeller is a twat
> El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
08/11/2019 at 20:22 |
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It’s all Reagan’s fault.
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Spanfeller is a twat
> ttyymmnn
08/11/2019 at 20:35 |
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I blame government subsides... both European and American. Boeing is absolutely way, way too big to exist in a “competitive market”... it’s basically on a government sponsored lifeline. Airbus is too young to have the same issues Boeing has, but god knows they’ve crossed legal and financial lines too.
Dusty Ventures
> DipodomysDeserti
08/11/2019 at 23:30 |
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I’ve got twitter notifications turned on for @aviationsafetynet, which means I get a notification every time there’s a report of a fatal plane accident somewhere in the world. I’d say the average is about three accidents a day
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ttyymmnn
> DipodomysDeserti
08/12/2019 at 09:34 |
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With commercial airlines, you have an expectation of highly trained and competent pilots and rigorous maintenance. With the little GA planes, you never know.
Mercedes Streeter
> ttyymmnn
08/12/2019 at 12:15 |
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Plus so I’ve been told, the prop engines found in GA aren’t the most reliable things in the world and a lot of the times you’ll only have one of them.
wkiernan
> El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
08/12/2019 at 12:15 |
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I’m going to go out in left field and blame the general degeneracy of modern technology rather than any one company’s corporate tendencies.
When I was young people took for granted that superior new technology would displace inferior old technology in a manner sort of reminiscent of biological evolution, but evolution on overdrive where the superior evolved organisms don’t just do better than their unevolved predecessors but actively wipe them out; but conversely, new innovations that suck would inevitably fail.
But we’ve seen solid old tech get completely wiped out in the market
by flashy but functionally
inferior
new tech too many times
to imagine that this holds true these days. Here the 737 MAX is actually inferior to the older 737s in terms of handling, but they designers made up for it by adding a
computerized work-around for the flightworthiness
deficit, and surprise surprise! the software fails
! And over in the ship building sec
to
r, it turns out that the computerized glass-screens to run the U.S.S. McCain were inferior to the old mechanical
control systems they replaced. And we’ve got autonomous cars on the way, because software is ever so much
smarter ‘n’ better than dumb human drivers -
watch out.
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ttyymmnn
> Mercedes Streeter
08/12/2019 at 12:21 |
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I would wager that their reliability is directly related to maintenance. I imahevthe FAA mandated GA maintenance, but that doesn’t mean it’s done.
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gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
> Spanfeller is a twat
08/12/2019 at 22:35 |
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https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44120525
737 aside, how is Boeing on a lifeline?
Aibus goes back to 1970 when Sud, deutsche and siddeley joined. It isn’t new at all. It’s like saying Fiat FCA don’t know how to build a car. k bad example.
The shitshow with the Air bus just shows how much of a fuckup the A380 from market study, to implementation, to spreading out the construction. Noble to unify the region, but economically dump. If it wasn’t for EU airbus
Both are too big and should be split, but with aircraft development costs going higher and higher, I don’t know how that is acceived.
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gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
> Mercedes Streeter
08/15/2019 at 20:28 |
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One of the major incentives for airlines back in the 50s to turboprops , was that maintence intervals doubled.
With substanially fewing moving parts, I would imagine there are fewer things to go wrong.